{"id":3744,"date":"2026-07-16T13:05:58","date_gmt":"2026-07-16T13:05:58","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/uspropertymoves.com\/?p=3744"},"modified":"2026-07-16T13:05:58","modified_gmt":"2026-07-16T13:05:58","slug":"jon-bernthal-on-odyssey-battles-counseling-spider-man-and-always-going-big-embarrass-the-f-out-of-yourself","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/uspropertymoves.com\/?p=3744","title":{"rendered":"Jon Bernthal on \u2018Odyssey\u2019 Battles, Counseling Spider-Man and Always Going Big: \u201cEmbarrass the F*** Out of Yourself\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"
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\n\tA few weeks into production on The Odyssey<\/em>, the time had come for the epic Trojan Horse sequence \u2014 the one that, as legend has it, saw the Greeks secretly invading the city of Troy and ultimately winning the war. In the film, it begins with Odysseus (Matt Damon) and more than a dozen of his allies, including King of Sparta Menelaus (Jon Bernthal), hiding inside the giant wooden steed. They\u2019re crammed together, silent and patient and ready to explode \u2014 and because this is a Christopher Nolan movie, the actors shot it full-tilt, every drop of anxiety and discomfort getting squeezed out for the camera within the horse\u2019s confines.<\/p>\n

Read more How Paramount May Fight an Onslaught of Lawsuits Over Its Warner Bros. Deal<\/a><\/p>\n

\n\tThe scene is staged so that the horse is partially submerged in water. Bernthal drew the short straw of the cast, so he was the one treading neck-deep. The water was supposed to be heated; when cameras began rolling in the Moroccan desert, it was ice cold. Within a few minutes, Bernthal was shivering. Even though Nolan is famously averse to the cozy comforts and shortcuts one might find on other movie sets, he suggested pulling his actor out.<\/p>\n

\nBut Bernthal refused. He screamed, \u201cYou ain\u2019t breaking me, Chris. There\u2019s nothing you can do to break me.\u201d So Nolan kept filming, and kept filming.<\/p>\n

\nFor what he has called the hardest shoot of his life, Damon says The Odyssey <\/em>would not be the movie it became if he and his co-stars hadn\u2019t witnessed Bernthal in action, refusing to surrender to the elements, at the start of their long journey together. \u201cThat was the first example of somebody pushing past what they thought they could do. Nobody in that horse was ever going to complain for the next five months about anything because of what we saw,\u201d Damon says. \u201cIt set the tone for the rest of us and how we needed to show up for each other and for the movie.\u201d<\/p>\n

\nBernthal\u2019s collaborators from across his 25-year screen career will not be surprised to hear this. The D.C. native made his name in small but impactful parts for the likes of Martin Scorsese (The Wolf of Wall Street<\/em>), Denis Villeneuve (Sicario<\/em>), James Mangold (Ford v Ferrari<\/em>) and Ava DuVernay (Origin<\/em>) by digging deep \u2014 no matter the size, no matter the cost.<\/p>\n

\n\t\u201cThere was always another level to go to, another level to unpack. And he just kept working it and working it all the way through production with whatever time I could give him,\u201d says Nolan. \u201cHe really wants to know that he\u2019s lifted every rock. He examines every possibility for the character and what he could bring to it.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tBernthal\u2019s steady rise has culminated in an explosive 2026. His year began with the January limited series His & Hers<\/em>, a juicy mystery co-starring Tessa Thompson that now ranks as the 10th most popular Netflix show of all time. He both co-wrote and starred in special installments of The Bear <\/em>(\u201cGary\u201d) and The Punisher<\/em> (\u201cOne Last Kill\u201d), series vehicles that have earned him, respectively, an Emmy Award and the Marvel seal of approval. To that latter point: The Odyssey<\/em>\u2019s release on Friday comes ahead of Spider-Man: Brand New Day<\/em> (out July 31), in which Bernthal will debut his gravelly voiced antihero in an MCU movie after a decade of playing him in various TV shows.<\/p>\n

\nOh, right, and this past Sunday, Bernthal wrapped his four-month run in Dog Day Afternoon<\/em>, where he made his Broadway debut, without missing a single show.<\/p>\n

\n\t\u201cThe world, now especially, is so fraught with \u2018You don\u2019t want to be embarrassed,\u2019 \u2018You don\u2019t want to strike out,\u2019 \u2018You don\u2019t want to get too many nos,\u2019 \u2018You don\u2019t want to be rejected,\u2019\u201d says Bernthal. \u201cAnd God do I think that\u2019s a mistake. That is the opposite of living. Go bold. Embarrass the fuck out of yourself. Look for nos. Look for people to reject you.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\t***<\/p>\n

\n\tThat nonstop intensity takes a toll. The first time I meet with Bernthal, he seems a little worn out. It\u2019s a hot, muggy June afternoon in Midtown Manhattan, and he\u2019s waving me into the stage door of the August Wilson Theatre, where he\u2019ll perform a Dog Day <\/em>show mere hours from now. He closes the door behind me as I walk in, and we ascend a rickety staircase in near pitch-black darkness. \u201cThe lights are out,\u201d he laments while adjusting his baseball cap. \u201cThere\u2019s just no electricity.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tWe head to his dressing room, where the power \u2014 and, mercifully, the window unit AC \u2014 is still on. The room is lined with photos of his mentors and family and a framed still of Al Pacino in the Dog Day Afternoon <\/em>movie, the iconic role he\u2019s boldly taking on. He spends this time of the day religiously brewing cup after cup of tea with his electric kettle, sucking on lozenge after lozenge.<\/p>\n

\nBernthal\u2019s fiery performance \u2014 teary and loud, melancholy and swaggering \u2014 would take a lot out of any actor. I ask him what an afternoon on a show day looks like for him at this point, a few months into the run. Is he settled? He sighs, takes a moment to answer. \u201cI didn\u2019t really know what to expect, but I didn\u2019t expect this,\u201d he says.<\/p>\n

\n\tWhile a commercial success from the outset, the stage adaptation of Sidney Lumet\u2019s blazing film drew mixed reviews from critics and received no top honors at the Tony Awards, despite the impressive cast toplined by Bernthal and featuring his frequent collaborator Ebon Moss-Bachrach and Broadway stalwart Jessica Hecht. The New York Times <\/em>also reported on clashes between the playwright, Stephen Adly Guirgis, who was briefly kept out of rehearsals, and Mark Kaufman, a lead producer through Warner Bros. Theatre Ventures. Bernthal confirms that behind-the-scenes tensions resulted in a less successful play than he\u2019d hoped for.<\/p>\n

\n\u201cThe heart of it is so strong and so pure and so great, and unfortunately insecurity and rigidity got in the way of it realizing its fullest potential \u2014 and that makes me sad,\u201d he says. \u201cI\u2019m not sure that this is the best version of this story. A lot of promises were made about changes to the script that didn\u2019t really happen. It was quite tumultuous. I did see a lot of ego. It was not a highly collaborative process.\u201d<\/p>\n

\nHe makes sure to add: \u201cThe one thing that I can say is that I went into it giving absolutely everything that I have. I still do every day.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tBroadway represented a dream, a culmination point, for Bernthal, who credits acting and the theater with saving his life. Growing up with a lawyer father and social-worker mother, he was in trouble constantly as a kid, picking schoolyard fights and, one time, getting sent home from camp for trafficking Playboy <\/em>magazines. He describes his younger self as a suburban kid in search of danger. Looking back, he sees that he was on a bad path.<\/p>\n

\n\tThen he accidentally signed up for an acting class in college, where he was mostly focused on athletics, and caught the bug. His teacher, Alma Becker, inspired him to pursue acting as a profession and \u201csent me to Russia,\u201d as Bernthal puts it \u2014 specifically, to the Moscow Art Theatre. It might seem an odd choice. But the rigor and discipline demanded by that particular program meshed perfectly with his determination to push past his own limits and explore his red-hot emotions.<\/p>\n

\n\tIn Moscow, Bernthal embraced a deeply collaborative, military-grade artistic training ground. \u201cYou\u2019re a soldier for the story, you\u2019re a soldier for your higher-up,\u201d he says. \u201cIf you say, \u2018Jump,\u2019 I\u2019m up in the air \u2014 and then I ask you how high.\u201d<\/p>\n

\nThe chaotic Dog Day <\/em>process did not offer such a fruitful, productive dynamic. Hecht, an invaluable sounding board, would tell Bernthal, \u201cI promise you, honey, it\u2019s not usually like this.\u201d Bernthal has at least remained excited to show a new side of himself through the character of Sonny Amato, a desperate bank robber also navigating a complex queer romance: \u201cTo be a part of a love story that looks like this, that\u2019s so pure \u2014 it is such a thrill and such an honor for me.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tHe\u2019s preparing to take some time off with his wife and three children once he wraps. They are based in Ojai, California, though the family moved to D.C. for the year to stay close to Bernthal. He sees them every week, but the separation has taken its own toll. And he\u2019d still return to Broadway in a second \u2014 with one caveat: \u201cIt\u2019s got to be the right one, with the right folks.\u201d<\/p>\n

\nIt\u2019s not the first time Bernthal has had to learn that lesson.<\/p>\n

\n\t***<\/p>\n

\nWhen Bernthal came to Hollywood, he worried he didn\u2019t belong. He\u2019d sit around audition waiting rooms for soap operas and compare himself to the \u201cbeautiful men\u201d up for the same roles. He knew he didn\u2019t look like those guys, could feel that those jobs would not go his way. \u201cThe idea of me being sexy is the most absurd to me,\u201d he deadpans. He\u2019d have to work differently. In early projects, Bernthal honed his tough-guy persona, first breaking out as a merciless survivalist in The Walking Dead<\/em>. He brought a gritty vulnerability to these parts because he knew them in his bones.<\/p>\n

\nA year before The Walking Dead <\/em>premiered, Bernthal punched out a drunk man who grabbed his dog and later followed him home in Los Angeles. While the man survived, he was knocked unconscious as his head hit the pavement. \u201cIt was literally as profound and clear a moment as I\u2019ve ever had,\u201d Bernthal said last year on Dax Shepard\u2019s Armchair Expert <\/em>podcast. All he\u2019d worked toward could\u2019ve gone away in a moment. He realized he needed to take control of his life for good.<\/p>\n

\n\u201cHe\u2019s led a really interesting life, and I find actors for whom that\u2019s the case always are the most interesting to watch,\u201d says Damon. \u201cHe happens to be incredibly tough, which is not often the case in Hollywood \u2014 there\u2019s a range of characters he can play convincingly that others just can\u2019t, because he really is the thing that other people wish they were.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tLena Dunham, a friend of Bernthal\u2019s who directed him in 2022\u2019s Sharp Stick<\/em>, adds, \u201cJon is the favorite actor of plenty of tough guys \u2014 walking down the street with him, you see these guys who are usually exuding intimidation just go soft. He means so much to them and they get very cute when they catch him in the wild.\u201d That speaks to the unique complexity of the actor, who brings more nuance than first meets the eye: \u201cPeople share with him almost compulsively because they can feel his genuine interest and his profound lack of judgment.\u201d<\/p>\n

Read more TIFF Film Market Unveils Eight Projects for First Innovation Hub<\/a><\/p>\n

\nThat famed toughness has extended to casting offices. Bernthal is known for giving an audition everything he\u2019s got. In 2013, he went out for David Ayer\u2019s Fury<\/em>, a visceral film centered on an American tank crew near the end of World War II and starring Brad Pitt. Bernthal felt intimidated going up for the role, an unstable ammunition loader paralyzed by trauma, but the task became clear: \u201cIt was, \u2018Brad doesn\u2019t know you. You\u2019ve got to prove it to Brad,\u2019\u201d Bernthal says. \u201cThat was an insane morning. I was ready to die.\u201d<\/p>\n

\nWhat does Bernthal mean by that? He pours a fresh cup of tea. \u201cThe one thing that was going to be unquestioned after that morning was that no one was going to care more or work harder than me. No one was going to go to a more dangerous place than me. David and Brad both felt that in the room,\u201d he says. \u201cI left it absolutely all on the field, and it was a scary experience.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tScary for him \u2014 or for them? Bernthal flips his cap backward and says, \u201cI think probably for them.\u201d He takes another sip. \u201cI did what was needed.\u201d He got the part.<\/p>\n

\n\tMore recently, Bernthal has proven his range with warmer turns in King Richard <\/em>and Origin<\/em>, bringing a softness that extends off-camera. \u201cI experienced a man who saw his job on the film as one of service to the story, to the director, to the crew,\u201d says\u00a0Origin\u00a0<\/em>star Aunjanue Ellis-Taylor. \u201cI felt cared for by Jon. I felt challenged by Jon because of his keen intelligence about acting and the world we live in.\u201d<\/p>\n

He\u2019s also felt an increasing need to tell his own stories. He\u2019s spent over a decade developing a TV series called The Bottoms<\/em>, based on extensive time he\u2019d spent in Shreveport, Louisiana. A high-profile writer was hired to write the script several years ago, but he didn\u2019t fully engage with the community as Bernthal had, leading to a draft that didn\u2019t satisfy. So Bernthal paid out the writer\u2019s fee to retain the rights and script it himself: \u201cMy agents thought I was out of my mind, but I was like, \u2018I want to do this on my own now.\u2019 And that\u2019s what I did.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tIt changed the way Bernthal saw himself in Hollywood\u2019s creative ecosystem. Briefly set up at Amazon, The Bottoms <\/em>is now in active development with FX \u2014 largely thanks to his second-ever screenwriting credit on \u201cGary,\u201d the well-received Bear <\/em>prequel episode (co-written with Moss-Bachrach, who also stars with Bernthal) that premiered on Hulu in May. \u201cThey\u2019re like, \u2018OK, now we\u2019re looking at you as a creator,\u2019\u201d Bernthal says.<\/p>\n

\nHis first screenwriting credit, meanwhile, arrived only weeks earlier via The Punisher: One Last Kill<\/em>. This journey also goes back a decade or so.<\/p>\n

\n\tIn 2015, Bernthal met Tom Holland on the set of Pilgrimage<\/em>, a medieval Irish drama. During that spring shoot, a strange thing happened: Bernthal was contacted by Marvel about playing Frank \u201cThe Punisher\u201d Castle at the same time Holland was up for the new Spider-Man. They wound up starring in each other\u2019s audition tapes. \u201cIn all my years, I\u2019ve never seen anything like Tom\u2019s belief in himself, the health of his attitude toward it,\u201d Bernthal says. \u201cHe wasn\u2019t lying to himself. There was no fucking stopping this guy.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tHolland credits Bernthal with getting his take on Spider-Man to where it needed to be. \u201cHe encouraged me to show off,\u201d Holland says. \u201cI was playing it very much down the middle, and he told me to start the audition with a backflip and then do a somersault out of the camera angle \u2014 all that sort of stuff.\u201d As for The Punisher<\/em>, Bernthal wasn\u2019t sure about joining the Marvel machine at all. \u201cIt was Tom who was like, \u2018You\u2019ve got to audition for this. You\u2019ve got to make a tape for this,\u2019\u201d Bernthal says. \u201cHe explained to me who the Punisher was.\u201d<\/p>\n

\nThe rest is history: Bernthal led his own Punisher<\/em> TV series, to say nothing of his appearances on two separate Daredevil <\/em>shows. But his reservations were not unfounded; the ride has not exactly been smooth. Commissioned as a Daredevil <\/em>spinoff, The Punisher <\/em>aired for two seasons on Netflix to mixed reviews before its cancellation. Years later, Frank Castle was set to be revived in the Disney+ reboot Daredevil: Born Again<\/em>, but Bernthal walked away due to the creative direction. When production then stopped midway through season one due to the 2023 guild strikes, showrunners Chris Ord and Matt Corman departed. As is his wont, Bernthal seized that opportunity. \u201cI didn\u2019t like what they had for Frank at all,\u201d he says. \u201cUltimately they gave me something that they let me rework and rewrite \u2014 and they aired that. It worked for them.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tThis led straight into One Last Kill<\/em>, which Bernthal co-wrote with filmmaker Reinaldo Marcus Green, who\u2019s directed some of his best performances in King Richard <\/em>and HBO\u2019s We Own This City<\/em>. The stark, brutal stand-alone was the result of \u201cfive years of negotiating and navigating, of not doing a lighter version that maybe they wanted,\u201d Bernthal says. \u201cI insisted that I had to be the creative force behind it.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tAnd now this saga will come full circle, as Bernthal\u2019s Punisher and Holland\u2019s Spidey converge in Brand New Day<\/em>. In close collaboration with Holland and director Destin Daniel Cretton, Bernthal maintained his seat at the table. They rehearsed on set as if on a more indie-scaled production.<\/p>\n

\n\tThe film\u2019s story, of a loner Peter Parker leaning on his crime-fighting rival for help, evolved dramatically. \u201cIt was a very organic process. What was on the page ultimately ended up changing a lot because of what happened just naturally on set,\u201d Holland says. \u201cBecause of that, we got such an amazing relationship between Spider-Man and the Punisher.\u201d A hard-earned brotherly dynamic emerges between the characters. In one scene, Bernthal\u2019s Frank notices some tension between Spidey and his love interest, MJ, played by Holland\u2019s real-life wife, Zendaya. Bernthal says the moment allows the two men to connect in a surprising way.<\/p>\n

\n\t\u201cFrank is purpose-driven, mission-driven, \u2018leave me the fuck alone\u2019 \u2014 and I love when there are little cracks in that,\u201d Bernthal says. Frank plays an unusual mentor role here by recognizing Peter\u2019s warped state of mind: \u201cHe\u2019s like, \u2018Why are you being a dick to her? Don\u2019t do that \u2014 that\u2019s what I do.\u2019 To see himself in this and then be a little bit protective like, \u2018You\u2019re trying to do the whole dark thing, don\u2019t do that shit, I do that shit, it\u2019s not fun, do your shit\u2019 \u2014 I love that, and I really buy that.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\t***<\/p>\n

\n\tCap backward, black hoodie, printed-out photos of Bernthal\u2019s teachers from Russia and his family \u2014 it\u2019s been a month since our first conversation, and at first glance through the laptop Zoom window, not much feels different. But there\u2019s one very notable distinction: Bernthal is all but beaming on camera.<\/p>\n

\nWe\u2019re a few hours out from the first in the final week of performances for Dog Day Afternoon<\/em>. Have things changed since last we spoke? \u201cI\u2019m so glad you asked,\u201d Bernthal says. \u201cI\u2019m really proud of Ebon and I, man \u2014 I\u2019m really proud of us.\u201d He says the play is \u201cvastly different,\u201d stronger and better than even a month ago.<\/p>\n

\nThis experience was difficult, not what Bernthal was dreaming of. But he\u2019s emphatic that sticking with it, that giving it his all, was worth it. \u201cI\u2019m really ready for it to be done,\u201d Bernthal says with a laugh. \u201cBut I\u2019m also really excited for this week \u2014 leaving every single bit of myself on the stage.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tWe\u2019ve reconvened after my screening of The Odyssey<\/em>, in which Bernthal \u2014 surprise! \u2014 makes a meal of his handful of scenes. The bulk of his screen time is once again with Holland, who portrays Odysseus\u2019 son, Telemachus, as he nervously seeks out Menelaus for news of his father\u2019s fate after the war. Bernthal\u2019s big scene is set at a banquet, with Menelaus sitting between his wife, a stoic Helen of Troy (Lupita Nyong\u2019o), and Telemachus. The set piece builds toward the kind of expression of barely concealed rage and pain that Bernthal has plenty of experience with.<\/p>\n

\nMenelaus\u2019 outburst in this scene highlights the state of his broken marriage. Bernthal says, \u201cLupita and I wanted to dig into the wound of, how can we take these epic characters in this epic scene, in this unbelievably grand setting, and show the festering rot of a relationship that is so unbelievably relatable to a modern audience \u2014 and to people who are in very complicated relationships everywhere?\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tCommentators like Elon Musk and Matt Walsh have baselessly claimed on X that Oscar winner Nyong\u2019o, who\u2019s toplined box office hits like Us <\/em>and A Quiet Place: Day One<\/em>, was cast because of her race, setting off a wide \u201cwoke\u201d backlash to The Odyssey <\/em>on the internet\u2019s far right. \u201cI haven\u2019t read any of that stuff \u2014 I\u2019ve heard rumblings of it \u2014 and for me, it\u2019s like, we\u2019re making comments about a movie that people haven\u2019t seen. It\u2019s crazy,\u201d Bernthal says. \u201cBesides being unparalleled in her beauty, Lupita is able to convey so much through so little. I\u2019m just so glad it was her, and I can\u2019t imagine anybody else playing that part.\u201d<\/p>\n

\nHe and Nyong\u2019o came in aware of the need to deliver for a master filmmaker. Bernthal knows that feeling well. But he\u2019s also learned from moments of not <\/em>delivering.<\/p>\n

\n\tIn the late 2000s, he auditioned for Michael Mann\u2019s Public Enemies<\/em>, and Mann said to him, \u201cYou\u2019ve got a great look, but if Robert De Niro were here, he\u2019d hit you with an acting bat because you\u2019re just a terrible actor.\u201d At the time, Bernthal felt crushed. Does an experience like that stay with him?<\/p>\n

\n\tBernthal shakes his head \u2014 and then recites Mann\u2019s blistering quote for me almost exactly as he did in 2018 to Esquire<\/em>. \u201cSo clearly, it stayed with me,\u201d he cracks. For the record, Mann subsequently tapped Bernthal to star in a Vietnam War project that didn\u2019t move forward. \u201cHe offered me a TV series, to be the lead,\u201d Bernthal says. \u201cSo I\u2019ve gotten to know Michael since then.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tThe painful memory appears to move Bernthal as we wind down our time together. It speaks to his larger philosophy about acting, about putting himself out there, about taking charge of his own fate. \u201cI\u2019m capable of being shitty, dude, but I want to be a home-run hitter \u2014 I want to take big swings, I don\u2019t want to ever be afraid of striking out, I don\u2019t want to play it safe,\u201d he says. \u201cI don\u2019t want to inch toward the truth without going too far because I don\u2019t want to go too big. Fuck that. I want to give you everything.\u201d<\/p>\n

Read more Mark Hamill\u2019s \u2018Star Wars\u2019 Lightsaber Smashes Predictions and Sells for Record Sum at Auction<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Jon Bernthal discusses working with Christopher Nolan on The Odyssey and how Tom Holland helped him land in the Marvel Universe as Punisher.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":3743,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[2649,455,119,886,1068],"class_list":["post-3744","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-interesting","tag-jon-bernthal","tag-spider-man-brand-new-day","tag-the-odyssey","tag-thr-cover-story","tag-thr-original-video"],"yoast_head":"\nJon Bernthal on \u2018Odyssey\u2019 Battles, Counseling Spider-Man and Always Going Big: \u201cEmbarrass the F*** Out of Yourself\u201d - US Property Moves<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/uspropertymoves.com\/?p=3744\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Jon Bernthal on \u2018Odyssey\u2019 Battles, Counseling Spider-Man and Always Going Big: \u201cEmbarrass the F*** Out of Yourself\u201d - 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